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Trump Will Tell Europe To Follow Far-Right Poland's Lead In 'Major Speech'

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  • #46
    Do we really need a base right off our shore anyway?

    How much money could we save by shutting it down?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by cigarettesandtea View Post
      Do we really need a base right off our shore anyway?

      How much money could we save by shutting it down?
      I'm ambivalent about shutting down GITMO. My concern is where will you house the prisoners?
      No state wants them.

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      • #48
        I don't think keeping it open for 30 years to house a dwindling number of guys is a reasonable solution.

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        • #49
          I googled for a list of Guantanamo detainees and as luck would have it, hit this guy's name. He has a published memoir on his time in Guantanamo. Here's a link with an excerpt. It starts with a timeline. He's accused and interviewed repeatedly of being involved in the Millennium plot. HIs final interview, he drives himself to the interrogation, gets arrested, imprisoned and eventually flown to Guantanamo. Taught himself English while there. And wrote this:

          https://books.google.com/books/about/Guant%C3%A1namo_Diary.html?id=emwOBAAAQBAJ&printse c=frontcover&source=kp_read_button#v=onepage&q&f=f alse

          I think I'll buy it.







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          • #50
            The usefulness of gitmo is that it's a legal black hole. It was needed as a place to torture people and hold them without due process, which has harmed US interests since it's great motivational material for the other side.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by AnalHamster View Post
              The usefulness of gitmo is that it's a legal black hole. It was needed as a place to torture people and hold them without due process, which has harmed US interests since it's great motivational material for the other side.
              My understanding was we didn't do much torturing at Gitmo.

              We did that stuff at "Black Sites" located at "allies" locations, like Poland, who had shakier human rights. And then let "our friends" take the heat when news leaked out about them.

              P.S. The main usefulness of Gitmo appears to be being able to imprison suspects forever without ever having to go to trial with inadmissible evidence obtained by coercion, or that is considered sensitive intelligence that we don't want revealed.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by FSchmertz View Post
                My understanding was we didn't do much torturing at Gitmo.

                We did that stuff at "Black Sites" located at "allies" locations, like Poland, who had shakier human rights. And then let "our friends" take the heat when news leaked out about them.
                That's always been my understanding for as long as I can remember. Anything with our name on it would generally follow the rules while the more questionable stuff was handled 2nd hand to keep ours clean.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by FSchmertz View Post
                  My understanding was we didn't do much torturing at Gitmo.

                  We did that stuff at "Black Sites" located at "allies" locations, like Poland, who had shakier human rights. And then let "our friends" take the heat when news leaked out about them.


                  That all depends on what you mean by torture. White noise sleep deprivation, stress positions, solitary confinement, waterboarding, verbal abuse and threats of physical abuse. It's all designed to break down the victim's mind, which is the same aim as physical torture, you break someone so they will say anything to make it stop. Being not 'Murican myself, I would place all of the above in the torture category. The fact that I could make you or anyone else agree with me by applying those techniques to you until you broke seems to me to make a fairly conclusive case. The CIA spent millions developing the mental breakdown torture program and a succession of US administrations has worked hard to shape and distort the wording in international treaties against torture to keep the techniques y'all use in the grey area, at least in international law terms.

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                  • #54
                    You're confusing what we did in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq with what went on in Gitmo. I know for a fact that hooded picture came from there.

                    Some people were punished in the U.S. for what went on at Abu Ghraib.

                    Though as usual, they protected the officers who were ultimately responsible for what went on there and identified low-level people as scapegoats to punish. Standard military procedure.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by FSchmertz View Post
                      You're confusing what we did in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq with what went on in Gitmo. I know for a fact that hooded picture came from there.

                      Some people were punished in the U.S. for what went on at Abu Ghraib.

                      Though as usual, they protected the officers who were ultimately responsible for what went on there and identified low-level people as scapegoats to punish. Standard military procedure.
                      Some people were punished for being caught on tape perhaps. All the techniques I listed have been used at Guantanamo bay as well, they are in the enhanced interrogation techniques playbook developed by the CIA. Mostly developed actually at Guantanamo. You can watch video depositions from the psychiatrists who helped develop them thanks to the ACLU. I really don't see this bright line people try and draw between what was revealed at abu ghraib and what is intended by 'enhanced interrogation'. Abu Ghraib just had pictures of people enjoying doing it.

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                      • #56
                        Holding people in perpetuity without trial is fucked up too.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by cigarettesandtea View Post
                          Holding people in perpetuity without trial is fucked up too.
                          Apparently, as long as we don't get CAUGHT doing stuff that we claim is against human rights when anyone else does it, that's just fine.

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                          • #58
                            Gitmo should be closed and sold to the Donald for 1 dollar so as to build a much needed luxury hotel and golf complex

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by cigarettesandtea View Post
                              Holding people in perpetuity without trial is fucked up too.
                              Pffft! Those fucking Neanderthals are having the time of their lives.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by s.murph View Post

                                Pffft! Those fucking Neanderthals are having the time of their lives.
                                And you base that statement on what?

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